If you are encountering login problems please check here

2.3 Turbo Coupe Swap
#11

(06-19-2020, 04:08 AM)Stinger Wrote:  
(06-18-2020, 08:25 PM)TurboRay Wrote:  
(06-17-2020, 06:05 AM)Stinger Wrote:  If it's sat for a long time then the lifters don't have any oil in them yet so the valves will hold open until you crank it enough to get the lifters pumped up. 
.
Hmmmm.......I wuz wrong once before, Shannon ~ BUT, how do collapsed "lifters" (HLA's) hold valves open, .lol. <stickpoke> . [Image: happy0035.gif]

OP (Golypon) ~ If you wanna find out where the compression is going......do a ghetto leak-down test by applying shop air pressure thru the spark plug hole of each cylinder at TDC "compression". If it's "whoosing" outta the throttle body = leaking intake valve (or, "chunked" h/gask allowing air into adjacent cyl), if it's "whoosing" outta the exhaust pipe = burnt/leaking exh valve (or chunked h/gask), if it's "whooshing" outta the oil-fill cap = bad rings &/or burnt/"holy" piston.  . [Image: confused0024.gif]

Yes, you have to spin the oil pump the same direction as the distributor turns (clockwise) in order to get the pump to make oil pressure.

Does the timing on it matter, for when I put the distributor back in?

Next thing I'm gonna do is take enough off to get the head off, examine and determine whether it needs sent to machine shop or not. If it's anything more than head gasket (which is extremely likely) I'll probably have take the rest of it apart to send it in. What I'm trying to do is minimize costs. I really don't want complete overhaul. If I could pinpoint what was wrong it would make this a whole lot easier.

While I'm at it is there anything else I'm gonna need to do the swap? I have most wiring stuff (I believe) , and ECU. Are the motor mounts the same as the fox? It should just bolt right in? Once I get the compression checked out on the motor I'll swap the bell housing to the cable instead of hydraulic for the trans. I'm really just trying to get the car on the road at this point. It's pretty much ready to go to body shop for strut tower / frame rail welds, just need to get a tow and the parts, then it's just a matter of covering labor. Last thing to come off in the engine bay would be the brake lines and stuff, they're right in the way. Not sure how I wanna go about doing that.
Reply
#12

(06-26-2020, 12:59 AM)Golypon Wrote:  What I'm trying to do is minimize costs. I really don't want (a) complete overhaul. If I could pinpoint what was wrong it would make this a whole lot easier.
.
If you're trying to minimize costs, why are you pulling the head before "pinpointing" the source of compression loss? It's entirely possible that the wonky compression readings are due to (1) air escaping past valves &/or seats that are being held open by rust, flotsam or jetsam that has accumulated over time, (2) by a dislodged follower[s] that's preventing compression buildup via an inoperable valve [seen it happen], OR (3) by stuck/varnished rings.

IOW, I suggest first doing a ghetto leak-down test to see if/where the compression is escaping and then formulate your "attack plan". If it's leaking past a valve, I would pull the v/cov - as Alex suggested - and look/see if anything is obviously amiss. If not, remove the spring & retainer from the offending cylinder (with the valve[s] held shut by compressed air), chuck the valve stem into a drill motor and spin it slowly (low speed) for a SHORT TIME while pulling up lightly .on the valve. IOW.......a ghetto valve lapping. 

If air still escapes past the valve[s] after doing so......THEN pull the head to do a "proper" valve job/grind. BTW, have you tried starting this motor in spite of the weird compression readings? If it'll run - even poorly - you can often free up potentially-stuck/varnished rings (a common result of sitting for long periods w/o running) by pouring a few tablespoons of ATF or Marvel Mystery Oil into each sp/plug hole, via a small funnel with an attached fuel or vacuum hose, and letting it "soak" at least overnight. The neighbors will think your house is on fire upon startup ~ BUT, after the smoking stops, the result is often better ring seal.  [Image: confused0024.gif]
Placerville, California
(former)  2.3T '78 Courier ~ (current)  2.3T '87 Ranger & '82 Mazda B2200 (smog-exempt diseasel truck)
Reply
#13

(06-26-2020, 07:00 PM)TurboRay Wrote:  
(06-26-2020, 12:59 AM)Golypon Wrote:  What I'm trying to do is minimize costs. I really don't want (a) complete overhaul. If I could pinpoint what was wrong it would make this a whole lot easier.
.
If you're trying to minimize costs, why are you pulling the head before "pinpointing" the source of compression loss? It's entirely possible that the wonky compression readings are due to (1) air escaping past valves &/or seats that are being held open by rust, flotsam or jetsam that has accumulated over time, (2) by a dislodged follower[s] that's preventing compression buildup via an inoperable valve [seen it happen],  OR (3) by stuck/varnished rings.

IOW, I suggest first doing a ghetto leak-down test to see if/where the compression is escaping and then formulate your "attack plan". If it's leaking past a valve, I would pull the v/cov - as Alex suggested - and look/see if anything is obviously amiss. If not, remove the spring & retainer from the offending cylinder (with the valve[s] held shut by compressed air), chuck the valve stem into a drill motor and spin it slowly (low speed) for a SHORT TIME while pulling up lightly .on the valve. IOW.......a ghetto valve lapping. 

If air still escapes past the valve[s] after doing so......THEN pull the head to do a "proper" valve job/grind. BTW, have you tried starting this motor in spite of the weird compression readings? If it'll run - even poorly - you can often free up potentially-stuck/varnished rings (a common result of sitting for long periods w/o running) by pouring a few tablespoons of ATF or Marvel Mystery Oil into each sp/plug hole, via a small funnel with an attached fuel or vacuum hose, and letting it "soak" at least overnight. The neighbors will think your house is on fire upon startup ~ BUT, after the smoking stops, the result is often better ring seal.  [Image: confused0024.gif]

The motor is on a roller dolley in the garage, I haven't attempted to start it, just turn it over for compression. It's not in the car, I wanted to fix compression first. I did put 4 quarts of oil in. It was dry, it's still not even on the dipstick with the 4q. They junkyard SAID it ran, but idk if they told the truth or not.

For leakdown I suppose I'll follow this "If you wanna find out where the compression is going......do a ghetto leak-down test by applying shop air pressure thru the spark plug hole of each cylinder at TDC "compression". If it's "whoosing" outta the throttle body = leaking intake valve (or, "chunked" h/gask allowing air into adjacent cyl), if it's "whoosing" outta the exhaust pipe = burnt/leaking exh valve (or chunked h/gask), if it's "whooshing" outta the oil-fill cap = bad rings &/or burnt/"holy" piston"

and see if I can figure out the culprit. I'll try and do this sometime tomorrow or Monday. I'll report back, really want to get this car on the road. I really think the motor can run without having to put very much $ into it. Maybe I'm wrong idk. I'm planning to get strut tower / frame rails welded here soon on fox and would like to have engine ready to drop in.

I appreciate the help, I'm sorry I'm not super experienced. Please bare with me.

Also how much psi for leakdown test?
Reply
#14

As I posted on another forum I'll update everyone over here:

Alright my plan is as follows as my budget permits:
1st. Get it towed to body shop and have the rails welded
2nd. Do leakdown, if it's inconclusive, take the motor apart and prepare it for machine shop. If worse comes to worse a shop quoted me at $1,700 for a complete overhaul

at this point hopefully the compression is solid and all the gaskets, seals, valves, rings, rods, etc are replaced and whatnot and it will run.
Next piece it back together, (hopefully I can figure out distributor timing, if anyone would weigh in)

The next steps are a bit complicated. As far as I'm aware it didn't come with VAM, so I need to find the large one and the wiring (if anyone has any suggestions)

I'm assuming the original mustang wiring harness on the computer end, can just be swapped out, plug and play (with a few wiring changes obviously) but the adapters.

Swap the bellhousing the the original t5 as I don't have cylinder for hydraulic clutch nor pedals, etc.

oh and put boost gauge on the a-pillar.

At this point I'm just trying to get the car on the road by or before October.

Finally once I figure wiring out, make sure the compression is right, timing is right, and everything is pieced back together. Drop it back in the freshly welded car.

Some final touches will be new glovebox, new front seats, window switches and motors, and eventually... try and diagnose the gas gauge, and a new top. Oh yeah and the driver door is off guide, it needs the bushings replaced because it's a pain in the a**.

I'm open to any and all suggestions / feedback and recommendations. I'm new to this and trying my best here, if anyone with more experience has any tips or tricks I'd love to hear them. Cause at this point I'm $2,700 in the hole and I just want the tires to touch the pavement and make some AMERICAN boost. (prolly why it's been non-functional thus far  Big Grin )

___

Update

Alright I'm taking a gamble here, before I go in on machining of the turbo motor. I've sourced a turbo coupe motor for sale for $200, supposedly "Came out of running car with roughly 80k miles. Has adjustable cam timing gear, Ranger roller cam."
I'm thinking it's worth a shot before I go all in. If the compression on this motor is solid it will save me a lot of time and $, he said he can't do compression test for me because starter mounts to the trans which he doesn't have. It does come with the starter though, I figure I can throw a bellhousing of mine on there and test the compression when I get back. Worst case scenario I'm out $200, and I can try to resell it / mix match with other motor to try and make a functioning motor.

If anyone has a solution to where the compression could be checked before I go out there, I'm down to hear it.
Reply
#15

Anyone know what clutch alignment tool I should get for WC t5? I've tried 1-16" 10 spline and it doesn't fit. If someone could link me something.
Reply
#16

.
Not trying to be sarcastic, BUT.......

  1. Get whatever brand/model of clutch you need for your application & intended power level.
  2. Make sure the disc fits on the input shaft of yer trans.
  3. Use the alignment tool that came with it, OR.......take yer disc to the local A/P store, along with the I.D. dimension of yer pilot bearing and buy one that fits into the disc and has the right-diameter tip).
"Universal" clutch aligners are also available with multiple different-sized thread-on tips AND a tapered cone that slides on the shaft of the tool to center the disc. You can also visually .center 'em pretty accurately by equalizing the difference around the perimeter of the disc as compared to the OD of the pressure-plate "plate".  . [Image: confused0024.gif]
Placerville, California
(former)  2.3T '78 Courier ~ (current)  2.3T '87 Ranger & '82 Mazda B2200 (smog-exempt diseasel truck)
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)