If you are encountering login problems please check here

Ranger single port or dual port head, which to port?
#11

(10-19-2022, 06:00 PM)Wessk Wrote:  He had BOTH outputs of a wastespark coil in the same cylinder of the dual plug head.  
.
I've said it before, Wes......that you've probably forgotten more than I'll ever know ~ soooo, I'm sure I don't have to tell YOU (of all people) that that's a VERY-poor application of a (wasted-spark) coil pack: namely, trying to fire both plugs on the compression stroke in the same cyl......with the same (single) coil winding. In fact, that doesn't even qualify as wasted spark, since no portion of the spark energy is "wasted" on plugs firing during the exhaust stroke, lol.

As for your other point of "actually knowing when (IF) a coil failed.......yada yada" ~ I know which of the two scenarios you put forth that I  would prefer, and it wouldn't be the one resulting in a bunch of misfiring cyls at the upper portion of my boost ceiling. I contend that ~ if Matt "re-sequenced" his plug wiring to a typical/traditional wasted-spark layout, as posted above ~ he would be happy as a clam with the results. My 2¢....... <shrug>
Placerville, California
(former)  '78 2.3T Courier w/blow-thru Autolite 2bbl carb ~ (current)  '87 2.3T Ranger w/PiMP’d EFI
Reply
#12

(10-13-2022, 04:30 PM)onesillynotch Wrote:  im running ford OEM CPS and the ranger cam sync for sequential spark on ms3

you cant clear a dizzy on a dual plug head stock intake and im not sure on the CAS 36-1.  You can clear a ranger cam sync tho

the limiting factor with the DP setup is spark and intake selection. I am wired for dual mopar coil packs (using a bosche ignitor)  that initial were wired for sequential. @ about 25psi i had to revert back to batch fire as one coil (half a coil pack) was un able to jump 2 spark gaps under higher boost.  im swapping to 8 LS coil packs over the winter and will be going back to sequential spark.

Ill have a good comparison on how much of a restriction a stock intake is vs my  custom sheetmetal intake in a week or so based on turbo compressor wheel RPMS at the the boost level on both intakes for dual plug because i have to fix my intake Sad

(10-20-2022, 12:12 AM)TurboRay Wrote:  
(10-19-2022, 06:00 PM)Wessk Wrote:  He had BOTH outputs of a wastespark coil in the same cylinder of the dual plug head.  
.
I've said it before, Wes......that you've probably forgotten more than I'll ever know ~ soooo, I'm sure I don't have to tell YOU (of all people) that that's a VERY-poor application of a (wasted-spark) coil pack: namely, trying to fire both plugs on the compression stroke in the same cyl......with the same (single) coil winding. In fact, that doesn't even qualify as wasted spark, since no portion of the spark energy is "wasted" on plugs firing during the exhaust stroke, lol.

As for your other point of "actually knowing when (IF) a coil failed.......yada yada" ~ I know which of the two scenarios you put forth that I  would prefer, and it wouldn't be the one resulting in a bunch of misfiring cyls at the upper portion of my boost ceiling. I contend that ~ if Matt "re-sequenced" his plug wiring to a typical/traditional wasted-spark layout, as posted above ~ he would be happy as a clam with the results. My 2¢....... <shrug>

He already explained in this post he re sequenced them years ago, and is installing 8 COP coils in the near future.    He wanted the control you have with sequenced COP, and had the "idea" to use parts he had that he had already packaged.  He found the coils would not fire a reasonable gap in that manner, and reverted back to what he had.  I was simply explaining what he had, and why.
86 Mazda RX7, 2.3 swap, t5, MS3 sequential, BW EFR 6758
"If you can't dazzle them with knowledge, baffle them with bull sh*t"
Reply
#13

(10-20-2022, 10:28 PM)Wessk Wrote:  He......is installing 8 COP coils in the near future.    He wanted the control you have with sequenced COP.
.
Understood, Wes. Outta curiosity ~ what kinda ignition "control" is Matt expecting from CNP that he doesn't currently have with wasted-spark coil packs........are y'all talking about different cyl-to-cyl ignition timing?  <shrug>
Placerville, California
(former)  '78 2.3T Courier w/blow-thru Autolite 2bbl carb ~ (current)  '87 2.3T Ranger w/PiMP’d EFI
Reply
#14

(10-21-2022, 07:14 AM)TurboRay Wrote:  
(10-20-2022, 10:28 PM)Wessk Wrote:  He......is installing 8 COP coils in the near future.    He wanted the control you have with sequenced COP.
.
Understood, Wes. Outta curiosity ~ what kinda ignition "control" is Matt expecting from CNP that he doesn't currently have with wasted-spark coil packs........are y'all talking about different cyl-to-cyl ignition timing?  <shrug>

You have more "safe" time available to dwell the coils (basically waste spark doubles coil duty cycle at a constant dwell), and you can retard timing substantially (like after TDC) which can be useful for launch control and flatshift.   With waste spark you can light the intake charge of the companion cylinder on the intake stroke as you approach 0 degrees.
86 Mazda RX7, 2.3 swap, t5, MS3 sequential, BW EFR 6758
"If you can't dazzle them with knowledge, baffle them with bull sh*t"
Reply
#15

.
Interesting, Wes! I completely understand the increased coil-saturation time afforded by individual coils. But, I hadn't thought about the possibility of unintentionally igniting some of the companion cylinder's (diluted) intake charge at the beginning of its' exposure to the (wasted-spark) chamber during overlap. It all makes sense to me now......THANX!  <thumbup>
Placerville, California
(former)  '78 2.3T Courier w/blow-thru Autolite 2bbl carb ~ (current)  '87 2.3T Ranger w/PiMP’d EFI
Reply
#16

thanks Wes, yup 8 LS coils going on over the winter!

ill say again i was able to run 25psi and make about 350 to the wheels with the "very poor application of wasted spark" before the coil couldn't keep up, so more than most people make with proper ignitions Tongue It was an experiment that worked for a bit!


Matt
Function before form. Going fast is looking good!
Reply
#17

(10-31-2022, 09:34 PM)onesillynotch Wrote:  ......I was able to run 25psi and make about 350 to the wheels with the "very poor application of wasted spark".....
.
I've held you in high esteem for a long time, Matt ~ due to the power levels you've achieved with your mildly-ported DPH! BUT......that doesn't change the fact that using a single coil winding to fire both plugs in the same cylinder is a "very poor application of wasted spark", lol. As I said previously, such an arrangement is NOT wasted spark ~ since the spark from neither end of the coil winding is being "wasted", as intended, and therefore must overcome the combustion pressures with essentially HALF of its' energy potential.

I have no doubt that your upcoming CNP arrangement with the 8 LS coils will work great, Matt ~ BUT........I also think that your experience with the coil packs would've been infinitely better if the plug wires had been arranged so they fired as intended ~ in a wasted-spark configuration. Wes DOES, however, bring up an interesting point about the potential for the spark that's supposed to be "wasted" on the exhaust stroke.....to have the unwanted potential for igniting some of the diluted intake/exhaust mixture that's present during overlap (altho the OEM's didn't/don't seem to be concerned with that possibility).  <thumbup>
Placerville, California
(former)  '78 2.3T Courier w/blow-thru Autolite 2bbl carb ~ (current)  '87 2.3T Ranger w/PiMP’d EFI
Reply
#18

Ray, he had already put them back to a standard waste spark arrangement.      There is a very good possibility extremely tight gap (like 0.010) would have "fixed" it as well.

With regard to the OE's not being concerned about lighting the companion cylinders intake charge, this is really only a practical possiblity with spark after TDC.  Not a concern when simply operating an engine.   Can be a concern in racing/motorsports launch or torque limiting situiations.  Extreme levels of spark retard (again, AFTER TDC) can be practically useful for both boost building as well as flatshift soft cuts.   I never thought about it until I tried it, and then it was VERY obvious what was happening.
86 Mazda RX7, 2.3 swap, t5, MS3 sequential, BW EFR 6758
"If you can't dazzle them with knowledge, baffle them with bull sh*t"
Reply
#19

.
THANX for the explanation, Wes!  <thumbup>
Placerville, California
(former)  '78 2.3T Courier w/blow-thru Autolite 2bbl carb ~ (current)  '87 2.3T Ranger w/PiMP’d EFI
Reply




Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)